John Barrowman - "Musicals are a kind of art."
Musicals (German Magazine)
August/September 2005 - Heft 114
Interview & Photos by Ralf Ruhmeier
English translation by Barrowmanonline member, Elke
Actually he wanted to study Shakespeare, that's why Glasgow-born and USA-raised John Barrowman came to London as a student. An open audition for "Anything Goes" changed his plans, and suddenly he was onstage as Billy Crocker opposite superstar Elaine Page every evening. What followed was a consistent musical career including all the big parts - in MISS SAIGON, THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA, MATADOR, BEAUTY AND THE BEAST, SUNSET BOULEVARD, THE FIX, COMPANY or Steven Sondheim's PUTTING IT TOGEHTER. Barrowman has won the audience on both sides of the Atlantic and has recorded several solo CD's. We met the likeable performer in Munich, where he sang the role of Tony in a concert version of WEST SIDE STORY alongside Lea Salonga as Maria.
Mr. Barrowman, are you performing in Germany for the first time?
First time as a professional. Many years ago I had been to Munich and Hamburg as well - I sang in a High School choir travelling through Europe. I remember singing in a church in Munich, and afterwards me and the other guys, we decided to go to the Hofbräuhaus and we drank beer served in these big mugs. In the end we were all drunk and got in a lot of trouble. When we had to sing again in a church next day, we all had a hangover.
You are doing all different kinds of things: theatre, TV, movies. From our German point of view this is very ununsual.
It's also ununsual for the rest of the world! In the UK -and in the U.S. as well, once you do a certain thing you're labeled. If you do a musical, then you're only a musical theatre actor, if you do TV, you're only TV. I'm proud of breaking out of this label thinking in my career so far, because I don't want to be limited to one genre. It annoys me when people look down their noses at musical theatre. I think it's great that here in Germany like in the USA musical theatre is looked upon as a form of art and there's respect for the performers - at least that's how I see it from the outside. If I talk to people in the German musical sector, I get the view that they are respected amongst theatre people. In America the musical is respected by the other theatre lines, but not by TV and not by the movie business. In England they look down on us, they don't think we're capable of doing a play or doing a TV show. But I'm in the entertainment business, so the whole entertainment business should be open to me. When that's not he case, I try to break down doors, I've always done that in my career. I'm doing a play beginning in August at the Theatre Royal Haymarket, together with Rob Lowe. It's called A FEW GOOD MEN and it's from Aaron Sorkin who also wrote the television show, WEST WING.
In Germany musicals are not always considered art...
Really?
In the local town theatres they are doing musicals to make profit. And quite often it's always the same show.
If a theatre wants to make profit, it puts on a musical. And at the same time they claim that it's not art - that makes me angry. If it's good enough to make money, it's also art! Of course there are differences. What we do is commercial theatre and you can make a lot of money with it. And that's good, because in England operas are subsidized, musicals are not. Whats happening in America and Great Britain at the moment is this: For example BILLY ELLITO, the new musical, is completely financed by Paramount Pictures. Also LESTAT, the upcoming musical based on the Anne Rice novels, is financed by Warner Bros. The movie companies are going into the musical business because they can make a lot of money there. That's why Disney wanted to buy up Cameron Mackintosh, his company with productions and all. But he said no, and now they are co-operating. Musicals are becoming a part of the business for movie companies, that's why they're doing so many musicals at this time. Even if they are critically bombed like PHANTON OF THE OPERA, you can still make some profit with it, with DVD sellings and people going to the theatre. The Cole Porter movie DE-LOVELY, in which I had a part in was critically acclaimed in America and was nominated for a Grammy, but was not a big success in the movie theatres. But the DVD did very well. The movie companies are going to produce musicals for the stage - that's both a good thing and a bad thing. It's bad because maybe they just want to make profit so that the artistic value is not that important anymore - that's something we actors have to keep an eye on. And it's good because a lot of money is being invested into musicals - you are not always in search of producers, money is just flowing in.
Now musical, is it art or commerce?
Both. In every form of theatre there has to be a balance. I'm very realistic about that - that's why it's called the entertainment business. To be successful you have to run it like a business, otherwise you don't earn money to invest in further productions. That's how I see it. My career is a business, I'm making business decisions. People that I discuss business with, I don't bother them with artistic things - I don't go to money investors and talk about the feelings I have in a certain scene, they are not interested in that. You have to talk business straight and clear. But always there has to a balance. If it's too much about profit, you're going to get bad musicals because everyone thinks only about money. On the other hand there are shows that are so artful that they don't reach any audience - if someone for example pisses on the stage and yells "Aaargh!". Some people may think about that as art, but I don't think it sells many tickets. There is a balance! People like Cameron Mackintosh, Andrew Lloyd Webber or Stephen Sondheim, people like the great producers Bill Kenwright or Robert Fox have found it.
Why is it art?
Because you have to put alot of talent into a production, and interpretation and imagination and feeling and passion. You have to put love into it. You give a piece of yourself if you're part of a big production - that alone is a form of art. There's nothing more spectacular than a musical which moves me emotionally. If it appeals to you emotionally, no matter if it's a Monet or a musical, it is art - if you are moved, it's art. "Art isn't easy", as Stephen Sondheim says in SUNDAY IN THE PARK WITH GEORGE, "Art isn't easy, every detail is a big decision, you have to keep perspective and stay true to your vision."
Let's talk about your past. When did you perform for the first time? How did you get into the theatre?
It's what I always wanted. No, that's not right, I wanted to be a pilot as a kid, but then I realized that a pilot can't make people laugh and has no direct contact with them. It all started when I was four or five. My mum worked at a record store in Glasgow, where I used to sit on the counter beside the cashier and the customers let me sing the Top-Ten-Songs. At the time you played the records to the customers and I just sang along. I always wanted to make people laugh, never wanted to do anything else. There's nothing more exciting than performing for an audience and knowing that you have them in your grip, that you can manipulate them - and that is it exactly, manipulation! I can make you laugh and I can make you cry or I can make you hate me. That is a powerful gift. And if the audience allows me to manipulate them, then they show me a lot of respect and trust.
You have performed in many different musicals - Sondheim, Webber, Disney. Do you prefer a certain style?
No. If I'd said I prefer something, then maybe I would end up doing it for the rest of my life! I've always tried in my career to work on as many different things as possible. I only do shows that I like or interest me. I've come to the point where Stephen Sondheim or Andrew Lloyd Webber have asked me to perform in their shows - and that's where I wanted to get! It's great! Of course I have dreams and ambitions, for example I'd love to do an Andrew Lloyd Webber première. He will hear about it, I've stated it in about six interviews and on TV, that's how it works. I'd also like to do another Sondheim musical, I'd like to work with Cameron Mackintosh again - I love to work for these people! Because aside of being producers they are also friends. I have the feeling of returning to my family if I work for them.
What lies ahead for musicals? You mentioned big movie companies pushing their way to Broadway.
I think we're returning to the great time of musicals, the thirties and forties, the days of the film musicals of MGM, RKO and Paramount Pictures. All these black and white musicals I've grown up with, Fred Astaire, Ginger Rogers and Gene Kelly - everything comes back. There are also good directors - for example Susan Stroman, she directed the movie version of THE PRODUCERS which will be released this Christmas in which I have a part. Susan has won many Tony and Olivier Awards, companies are calling her asking: "We want to turn this musical into a movie. Would you do that? Because you staged it already." She then casted everyone from the stage version for the film version, except maybe Uma Thurman, even Stroman knows you need a big name for the female lead in a blockbuster. But the whole rest of the movie was casted with people she had already worked with. The movie companies are tending to trust the theatre directors again, I believe that is the way it is going. Take Sam Mendes for example, under his direction I did THE FIX, and afterwards he did the film, AMERICAN BEAUTY and won several Oscars. Musical directors and theatre directors see things in widescreen. In a movie the camera can zoom in on a detail, and onstage you have the big overall picture, and the audience decides where to look. I think that is where the movies are going at the moment. Look at STAR WARS, you get the overall picture and decide for yourself where to look. That is the reason why theatre directors make such good movie directors, I guess. The trend is going back to the great time of the musical, first onstage and then on screen.
How would you describe a good musical?
A good musical has a good story. A good musical has something called an arc. It has a beginning, a middle part with the climax and then the solution in the end, with the finale. If you have continuous storyline, if a character goes on a journey and all the other characters are a part of that, that's what a good musical is about. You need great tunes that will stick in your memory. Nothing's worse than leaving a musical and not remembering one of the melodies - I can't stand that! You don't need big stage sets anymore, today musicals are getting more intimate, which I like. Today a musical has to - and this is my business persona speaking - reach out to TV audiences. The first act shouldn't be longer than 70 minutes nor the second act either. Otherwise the audience gets fidgety and wants to go to the bathroom or wishes they could change channels like at home. But you don't want to lose the audience, you want to keep their attention. That is why the pace is so important, the order of events in a musical. Keep them interested, always show them different new things, that's how you keep an audience. I think that is the magic rule for a good musical.
You have a part in the movie THE PRODUCERS. How did this happen?
In England I have a part in a TV serial called DOCTOR WHO, a big science fiction serial which is very popular in in the UK and is now being sold to the rest of the world. Susan Stroman and Mel Brooks' agency called when I was sitting in my trailer during filming and the conversation went like this, they said: "John, we know that there's not much dialogue for you in it. In fact, none at all. You just will be the star of the number Springtime for Hitler. We know that you usually have some dialogue in your other TV and movie appearances. Do you mind?" And I said: "Susan, Mel, you know what? The whole movie is building up its tension towards Springtime for Hitler. The whole movie is pointing towards this number. And who do you see in it? ME! No problem. They will show this number in every teaser and trailer. They will air it on the radio, and you will hear my voice." The conversation went about like that. I said, "Of course I do it. Definitely." I'm blonde in this scene, blonde and blue-eyed - filming this sequence was rather strange, because the studios were situated in a Jewish neighbourhood. During rehearsal there were 75 blonde, blue-eyed Nazis in the parking lot. You should have seen the faces of the people around us, they just didn't realise we were making a movie - it was a little weird. And Mel Brooks said, "Folks, this is not cool. We have to go inside, they will freak out." He is Jewish himself. I found this confrontation quite bizarre - don't get me wrong, I'm not making fun of it. However, filming was wonderful. The movie will be a blast, so funny, with wonderful costumes. They've rebuilt the whole of 42nd Street on the set, it was so great! Nathan Lane and Matthew Broderick are wonderful. And Uma is just fantastic, she looks smashing.
Do you have a problem with the musical's story?
No. The musical is making fun of a very dark time of history. But if we can't make fun of ourselves. I'm not saying that just for the Germans, but for the English and especially at the moment for the Americans as well - maybe some day we'll look back and make fun of the Americans. I just believe we have to be more lighthearted. This musical is not just making fun of Germany, it's making fun of everything - of homosexuals, straight people, Jews, Americans, Sweden and so on. Mel Brooks covers everything. I don't have a problem with the subject, because that is what art is about, facing a subject others don't want to face. Most people are over it and looking forward. I believe the younger generation can handle it. Hitler is portrayed as gay, he looks like Judy Garland! It's not about Auschwitz or something like that - it's about getting a really, really, bad musical onstage. And this really bad musical is by chance about a really horrible subject, but it turns into a huge success. In all my life I have never heard an audience laugh so hard like in the show in London, honestly! And it was a rather mixed audience. I was very surprised, I didn't think it would work so well.
You have performed both in London and New York. Where is the difference?
It's less expensive staging a musical in London than on Broadway - that is the big difference, otherwise there is none. The audience is a bit different - British people are not so easy to get on their feet for a standing ovation , while Americans jump on their feet very fast for everything. And not because they are banal, but they are showing their appreciation for the work you have put in there as a performer, an artist. If a British audience is on their feet, you really have left a mark. Of course London is my home, but I like to perform in both cities, they are both exciting in their own way.